Security and working dogs
 

In the "hick's survival guide" thread, a very good point was raised about the utility of dogs.

I am interested in harvesting whatever knowledge the good folks at GIM have on this subject, so thought it deserved a thread.

What breeds?

Training program?

Best size of dog to maintain?

What types of jobs a dog is expected to perform?

Weapon/dog combination?

My father always had bird dogs, but I never followed him into this tradition. I thought for day to day hunting, coon hounds or generally any dog that can spook some meat up into a tree would be the best compliment to a .22 rifle.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

A well bred American Pit Bull Terrier will do just about anything you ask if raised correctly.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Do you have an idea of what kind of help you want from the dog? Hunting? (If so, hunting what?), Retrieving?, Herding? Varmint elimination? Cart pulling? Protection of property? Protection of persons?

Of course, owning a dog is a huge responsibility, so it would help if you told us something about your commitment to it, too. Where will the dog live? How many hours a day can you spend with it? How far are you willing to take it on walks (some breeds need a lot of exercise...my Husky takes 5-mile+ walks)? What are you willing to spend for vet care (some breeds have more medical issues than others)? Do you have children? Do you have company visit your house? How much time and money are you willing to invest in training? Do you intend to spay or neuter (male humans often have psychological problems with neutering their dogs)? If not, what type of responsibility will you take for any puppies? (Don't think a fence will stand between a dog in heat and the boy dogs!)

Re: Security and working dogs
 

these would be great ones

Re: Security and working dogs
 

These are the kinds of questions I wanted to throw around.

I guess in a SHTF situation the dog would have to guard the family, be wary of strangers, and help with hunting and herding- be an all-around worker.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Australian Cattle dogs are in my opinion a superior dog. Very attached to there owners, and fiercly protective. But they also have a good disposition towards children and strangers when not provoked.

They are quick , agile and very very smart. Another plus is there size. Males typically weigh in at 50 pounds or so. My female is around 35. There compact size allows for a very friendly in house experience.

They also have short hair,a plus in my book.And as far as work goes, forget about it, givin proper treatment these dogs will work until they drop. Very hard working wether herding or rooting out vermin.

Ther are many ACD rescue sites across America. These dogs often end up in recue situations because there owners just could not handle there energy and there need to be close to you. My ACDs are like shadows. They are always with me.

Good luck

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Fila. There is no substitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fila_Brasileiro
The Fila Brasileiro is an excellent estate guardian and cattle dog. It does not hide its aversion to strangers, consequently these dogs are not disqualified from the show ring for showing aggression to the judge [1]. Their faithfulness to family and friends is legendary, but this breed is not for everyone.

The Fila needs a confident, experienced owner who can properly curb the breed's natural aversion towards strangers. Because of its aversion, it is not well suited to busy households which have many guests. Such aversion is instinctive in Filas, so much so that the Brazilian breed standard advises show judges not to touch the dog.

[2] However, the FCI standard allows for disqualification of very aggressive dogs. Few Filas will attack for no reason, but none will be friendly with strangers.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

This is my soon to be momma. She is a pure bred German shepherd that I got a about a year ago. Pretty soon here I am going to find a stud and go for a litter. From these I am planning on keeping one male to train as my "working" dog. Yet another thing I need to study up on. Anyone know of some good breeding resources online? I have a couple books but they don't get very specific.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/112/jessea9.jpg

Sheps are great. I love her to death, amazing personality and very protective/loving.

I am going to be doing more research on training/breeding in the next couple weeks. I will try and remember to post again with any resources I find.

Best of luck.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

You sir need to read around this forum:

www.pitbullforum.com

http://www.workingpitbull.com/

Upon reading you will find the APBT does NOT fit the bill on what the OP is looking for. The APBT is bred for one thing and that is dog on dog. They will not lose. A great guard dog would be a Rottweiler or German Shepard, Doberman, etc.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

I second that. I've had Pits for years and done Pit Bull rescue. Pits are not good guard dogs. They've been bred over many years not to be aggressive to humans (what human could a handle a fighting dog that couldn't be relied upon not to turn on him?). A Pit that's aggressive to humans is probably an unstable dog that's been messed up by an ignorant human.

Do check your insurance before getting a dog known for being a guard dog. Many insurance companies will cancel your homeowners insurance if they find you have a dog considered to be a dangerous breed. Our homeowners insurance was cancelled without explanation just before renewal one year. We believe it was because they did a drive-by and saw my Pit Bull and a couple of rescue Pits in my fenced backyard (they're not yard dogs, but they were probably out playing). Our busybody neighbor who notes everything that goes on in the neighborhood saw a car stop and a guy get out and take pictures of our house and backyard and the dogs. Two days later our insurance was cancelled. Because we had a Pit Bull, no other insurance company would take us, and we ended up having to go with the state's default insurance company.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

would that be also known as a Queensland heeler.
I agree, great dogs

all four of our Dogs have some Pit Bull Terrier in them

this is Freckels (in front) her mom was a Queensland. Dad was a Big Pit
Beside her is Max...we found him abandoned...so Not sure bout him, But Im sure there is some Bull terrier in him. And in the Back is Roxy. Her mom was a Great dane and her dad a Pit.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h5...axfreckles.jpg


Then we have Mud,
Her dad is max and her mom is Freckles :biggrin:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h5...MVC-019F-1.jpg the Queensland in her shows

all Are Great Dogs!
Very protective too.

I would have to say that Queensland and Pit are a good mix

But Im sure that there are many many Real good dog breeds

this is our Favorite pic of Roxy
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h5...Picture107.jpg

Sorry to Hijack your thread,,,I just Love my dogs and wanted to share em

Carry on....

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Ruskie, I used to train dogs for tracking and obedience and taught dog training for a decade. Read up on breeds. Most important make sure to get a well bred dog with that breed. A well bred dog should have two healthy parents you can meet. Both parents should also have a stable temperment.

As far as formal protection training goes you need to have very good off lead control of your dog on basic obedience commands. Most dogs are not even ready to start protection training until they have had two years of obedience school. Then you want to hook up with a trainer who does formal and competitive protection training and not some redneck who teaches your dog to kill. A trained protection dog must be highly obeidient or you have a lose cannon on your hands...

Most local kennel clubs have groups for obedience training , hunting, tracking and protection. It is advisable to participate in a program that teaches you how to work with your own dog..

Also remember that any dog who is devoted to its family will protect it. Make your dog a well trained and well loved member of the family and guarding will come natural.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Briard and or Portuguese Water Dog.These dogs are for people that have a bit of class and brains. I have owned both. The Portuguese Water Dog I had was great!! He would do anything. He was a super fun dog but not sure I would want two at one time? He almost killed a retired Marine that was now a Sheriff that was messing with the wife. Long story. The dog was just doing his job and the marine almost killed himself because of the dog. Middle size dog.

The Briards, if bred right, are just great as an all around dog. Its a herding, guard type dog. Larger dog. They are called a heart rapped in fur. Most people that have owned different dogs think this breed is closest to human. Just something about them that I can't put in words.

I also recommend a well bred Doberman for protecting the family. Not sure about doing the odd jobs with a Doberman?

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I disagree that bully breeds cannot be good guard dogs they are very loyal and have a strong desire to please.

Rotties are natural guard dogs but a trained bully breed could perform the task with ease.

If stray dog came into your yard the bully has an unfair advantage.

I've seen Sam, my basset punk a rottie of it's food in it's own yard.

The Basset will try that at home but it doesn't fly to well.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

We had a weimaraner when I was a child- one the most dedicated dogs I have ever seen. He was like my shadow from the time I was born. He would never leave my side. Remember him catching rattle snakes and whipping them around to kill it; then he would run off and burry it to keep it away from us. Amazing animals and one of the best looking dogs IMO.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

I assume you are talking about Blue Heelers or perhaps a Red Cloud type of breed. Both are extremely loyal dogs with a natural herding instinct. Well trained the dog can anticipate what the farmer is trying to do. With practice you can virtually send the dog out on its own to do the herding.

Blueheelers are very brave animals and will immediately step in to protect the pack... thats you and yours basically. In that regard they are a lot like German Shepherds and labarador type dogs. Labs tend to slack off a fair bit but when their hackles are raised they are a frightful dog.

Blueheelers really do need training, they get their name from their tendency to nip at the heels of cattle or sheep. A heeler that is not trained will usually attempt to herd you or your kids and that results in painful nips at the heels. Trust me, it hurts.

Red Clouds are a kind of a smaller.... well perhaps a kelpie type dog. A lot like a dingo in fact. These dogs are massively energetic and they have to have lots of excercise, otherwise they become disruptive and destructive. Extremely loyal and happy natured which makes them great for family's. Its a good dog for a boy. Again these dogs are natural herders. I don't know how good they would be as a defensive animal. I would put them and Labradors in the same basket and put Blue heelers and German Shepherds as the better defence dogs of the 4 dogs I mentioned.

It isn't by much but I think those two would be likely to keep going after the threat even if they had been hit or shot at and not easily scared off. Nothing scares a blue heeler. They don't seem to know the meaning of the word.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Thanks for all the feedback- alot of experienced dog owners out there, which is what I was counting on.

I had never heard of the Blue Heeler before. They seem a very nice size, versatile, and natural camoflage to boot. The coat looks short but not too short. How do they stand up to the cold?

I considered a Dobermann, but read that they don't do well in the cold. I live in Russia, so that's out.

An alternative was the Bouvier, but they are just too big, and I'm not keen on lots of hair and slobbery jowls. My friend has one he likes, and says they're great guard dogs.

The Rott is very interesting, but again, too big.

Long-haired weimeraner is nice, and I like the nobility and versatility of the breed. A bit on the big side. Can anyone say more about them (thanks shinylid)?

I hope to have horses some day, and read that Dalmations are good horse guards, and will accompany and befriend horses quite well. They are quite beautiful in my opinion, but I don't know about cold tolerance.

I guess I'm narrowing down my parameters- compact dog, versatile, natural guarding ability, good with family, cold tolerant, not too much hair and slobber, good buddy potential. Guarding, tracking and hunting would be uses.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

My all white german shepard, named Storm, is a sweet-heart. She wants to go where I am, does anything I say (in english...amazingly...) and is a sweetheart even to kids.

Her older sister Shiloh, also all white, is a guard-dog who will protect the "pack" or family at any costs.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...&pictureid=276

"The Weimaraner is a silver-gray breed of dog developed originally in early 19th century for hunting. Early Weimaraners were used by royalty for hunting large game, such as boar, bears, deer, and foxes. As the popularity of large game hunting began to decline, Weimaraners were used for hunting smaller animals, like fowl, rabbits, and foxes. Rather than having a specific purpose such as pointing or flushing, the Weimaraner is an all purpose gun dog. The Weimaraner is loyal and loving to his family, an incredible hunter, and a fearless guardian of his family and territory. The name comes from the Grand Duke of Weimar, Karl August, whose court enjoyed hunting."

(taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimaraner )

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Onboard, those Filas sound awesome. going on my christmas list.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

I think a more common name or the more appropriate name of Australian Cattle dogs would be "QUEENSLAND HEALER" My dogs are Red Healers but I do not see any differance between them and there blue cousins here in the states. They are the same dog, just differant color schemes.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Im telling you brother, Queensland Healers (Australian Cattle Dog) are incredible dogs. Weather Blue or Red makes no differance . If you want one of the smartest dogs ever bred that can work all day long and protect you and the herd this dog is hard to beat. And again, there size is very conducive to in home living.

Yes they are compact, very versitile(best frisbee dogs in the world) Very protective of you and your family absolutely no slobber and the best damn buddy you could ever hope for. Not sure of there hunting skills perse , but they can track anything.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

Re: Security and working dogs
 

If your dogs were around a big male alfa Briard they would not run or move much as they would not want to be killed as prey.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

sockrobot, I think Filas are great for guardian dogs. As far as protection goes they need no training, none. They were bred to protect and they will!

I strongly suggest that you research this breed extensively before you aquire one. The owner must be the alpha in the pack, these dogs can be very stubborn so you have to be dominant. I also would suggest that you socialize them while they are puppies. Put 'em on a leash and and take them to where people are, it will help you to manage them around people when they get older. Socializing them will not effect their natural aversion (akin to hatred) to strangers, it will only help you in the long run.

These dogs are not known for turning on their pack and you and your family are the pack. There is a saying in Brazil, " Loyal like a Fila". Lot's of different breeds can be called out by strangers (there are always exceptions in various breds) for the purpose of burglary etc. A well bred Fila will not be called out. Period!

In Brazil these dogs worked the ranch. They tracked run-away slaves in the colonial days and they were also used to hunt cougar.

I've rambled enough. Research this breed before buying. My girls weigh about 130-140 lbs. and they are country girls.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

thanks again for the info and making me aware of this most interesting breed.

Re: Security and working dogs
 

You're most welcome. My pleasure.